But, at the same time, you don't have the right to leave the keys in your
car in a convenience store parking lot. If it is stolen you are held liable
as well for negligence. I think everyone has a duty to protect their
network. If you don't secure it properly you will be penetrated. I say go
for it. Tell the employer what you found. It's not like you're telling a fat
man to put down the Twinkie. Its more like you're telling the person at the
bar who can barely walk to give you their keys. It's for their own good and
for the good of others.
-Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Wright [mailto:cwright@bdosyd.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 4:18 PM
To: Cesc
Cc: gillettdavid@fhda.edu; Craddock, Larry;
security-basics@securityfocus.com
Subject: Spam:RE: application for an employment
Hi
The rights are those of the property owner. I have a right in law to
leave my doors open. It is not your right to check for me. The liability
does not rest with the property owner to do more than assert their right
of ownership.
In this analogy it is your fault. This is something that many people
have to come to understand. You are the one in the wrong by checking,
door, server whatever. The property owner has a legal right in common
law (what you think of this right is inconsequential) to leave all their
doors open.
I have a house in the city and one in the bush. I get to leave the
country house wide open and not have to worry. In the city I do not do
this not because I lose rights - but as I do not want to go through the
issue of trusting people and thus being disappointed.
Lets forget all the analogies for a moment. It is simple. The property
owner - i.e. the owner of the web server has rights. The right to leave
a server on the Internet to be accessed as a web service is a legal
right. If the owner of the web server fails to secure the server - this
makes NO difference. If you access it to show it is insecure. You are
violating the web server owners property rights.
It is very simple. Access as the owner intended - good. All other access
bad.
If the Uni had allowed access to check the site than this is an allowed
access and does not violate rights of property.
Regards
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: Cesc [mailto:cesc.santa@gmail.com]
Sent: 29 March 2006 2:12
To: Craig Wright
Cc: gillettdavid@fhda.edu; Craddock, Larry;
security-basics@securityfocus.com
Subject: Re: application for an employment
May i propose a different view?
If you set up a server connected to the public internet with a few
services available ... wouldn't it be a valid analogy to say that you
have several gates to you house, where each is guarded (or should be) by
a bouncer/guard. Me, standing on the public sidewalk, not only have the
right to see and check which and how many gates you have, but also is no
crime to approach the bouncer/guard and talk to him/her. No crime in
talking ... which following the analogy, i would consider as connecting
or sending probe packets.
If the house owner did not educate well enough the bouncers to not give
out information to passers by is not "my" fault.
Just random thoughts ...
Cesc
On 3/28/06, Craig Wright <cwright@bdosyd.com.au> wrote:
Actually I see this as a Very good analogy.
It also has the legal issues covered.
If you break the window you are liable for "Criminal damage" and this
is a risk you take.
If you do not break the window (using small stones or small clumps of
dirt for example) you are not legally liable - though the owner of the
window may still not be happy.
Than again, sometimes the vase inside the open window gets broken.....
Regards
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: David Gillett [mailto:gillettdavid@fhda.edu]
Sent: 28 March 2006 6:18
To: 'Craddock, Larry'; security-basics@securityfocus.com
Subject: RE: application for an employment
It's more like throwing a stone at a window to see if it's open.
Sometimes the stone bounces off the closed window, sometimes it sails
through the open window, and sometimes it *breaks* the window.
"I only wanted to find out if the window was open or closed" is not
generally considered an excuse to avoid responsibility for the broken
pane....
David Gillett
-----Original Message-----
From: Craddock, Larry [mailto:l_craddock@wfec.com]
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 11:59 AM
To: security-basics@securityfocus.com
Subject: RE: application for an employment
Seems to me port scanning is neither picking a lock or seeing a door
hanging wide open but more like rattling a door to see if it is
unlocked. I don't know about you, but if someone comes by my house
and
rattles the door to check whether or not it's locked I'm going to
assume he has bad intentions whether he does or not and he'll need
to be prepared for my response.
-----Original Message-----
From: L G [mailto:nitziya74@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:23 PM
To: security-basics@securityfocus.com
Subject: Re: application for an employment
This is a good thread which begs further discussion.
I guess the crudest part of my question is, was Mathias picking a
lock, or did he see a door hanging wide open?
And at what point is someone going through an open door versus
looking
in a window versus admiring someone's architecture from the street?
lg
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