My real interest in obtaining the CEH is for personal validation that
I know the things that the security world says I should know to do
that job, the basics that is. Some say it is a joke, and maybe it is,
but being new to security there is a lot to soak in. I don't know I
guess it just seems like a good starting point for the other stuff.
The OSCP course is awesome, and I have learned how to find buffer
overflows, arp spoofing and metasploit, but there aren't explanations
as to why you would use one nmap switch over another like in the CEH
videos I watched. Obviously if the training doesn't tell me I need to
look it up myself, that part is a no brainer, the hard thing is what I
need to be looking up, what do I need to know that isn't in the video
I am watching or the article I am reading. With so many tools and
possible ways to gain access to a system I am looking at
certifications as a guide to what I need to know. Either that or a
need to find a mentor, who wants to be my yoda?
In the videos I watched for the CEH the exam came across as a book
smarts exam, where memorizing a man page is going to do more for you
(in regards to the exam) than hands on experience. So I can see for
security professionals it would be somewhat boring as a lot of the
things you would learn earlier in your career.
On 8/28/07, xelerated <xelerated@gmail.com> wrote:
I have taken the CEH, CISSP and OPST
I have to say that the OPST was by far the most valuable
to expanding or enhancing my skillset. Its hands on, you cant
memorize the answers, you know it or you dont.
The CISSP was an employer requirement and in studying for it
I did learn mostly about risk based audits. But as we know risk
is not security.
The CEH while I thought it was cool (this was some years ago, v3)
Im almost ashamed to say I have it. The people that think its cool
are not really the type of people i'd want to work for.
Its a fast track to being a script kiddie.
Just my 2 cents.
Chris
On 8/27/07, Peter Manis <manis@digital39.com> wrote:
Thanks Michelle,
Before starting the OSCP course I my ability to perform many of the
tasks in penetration tests was very limited. The OSCP course, for me,
has a great method of presentation for learning, but not elementary
enough that someone with experience might get bored (can't really say
though).
For example in the buffer overflow section he goes over writing
overflows and really gets into the nitty gritty with debuggers,
locating memory addresses. You see how to find the bug, write the
overflow, and exploit the machine. He doesn't however go so basic
that he explains endianness or actually explaining the background of
buffer overflows it is up to you to research a number of topics.
On top of the training you have access to a VPN lab (if you get the
package) to test these tasks out. Just a note, the cost of the
training is changing on the 1st of September and I can only assume it
is increasing.
Here is a demo of the training from the site.
http://www.offensive-security.com/movies/01intro/01intro.html
On 8/27/07, Michelle Duff < mduff@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
Good luck with the job search, Peter - would love to hear how it turns
out
for you.
Thanks for the OSCP info -- I'd heard of it, but didn't know what the
training was like - good to get the skinny on a course.
I took the CEH course from InfoSec Institute - it was a bootcamp thing.
Typical bootcamp mode of learning - quick & dirty.
We did do capture the flag stuff which was lots of fun, but it always
came
at the end of a 11 hour day of studies geared towards getting us to pass
the
CEH exam. Now I'm home playing w/ the VMware environment trying to
recreate
similar capture the flag sessions.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Manis" <manis@digital39.com>
To: "Michelle Duff" < mduff@tampabay.rr.com>
Cc: "Jay" <jay.tomas@infosecguru.com>; <pen-test@securityfocus.com>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: CEH Books
I agree as well, which is one reason I picked the OSCP before the CEH.
To pass the OSCP I need to actually perform an attack on a machine.
Of course this is not equal to real world experience, but as a start
towards moving to security I felt HR may look at my resume and have
interest in hiring me as an entry level tester because I have proven I
can apply the knowledge I have learned vs just memorizing nmap
switches and port numbers (not that the exam doesn't cover more).
When I watched a few videos of CEH and read through the material on
the exam it seemed the CEH was more like the first few classes at med
school (from what I've heard), you have to memorize a bunch of names,
functions, and instruments, but it isn't until later that you get to
break out the tools and apply that knowledge.
- Pete
On 8/27/07, Michelle Duff <mduff@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
Excellent point, Jay.
I agree whole-heartedly -- having gotten a number of certs in my
career:
CISSP, CCNP, MCSE and not enough hands-on led to my being viewed w/
general
contempt by those who knew their stuff & didn't necessarily have the
certs -
I was a 'poser' - it stinks to be viewed that way.
You must have the hands-on -- read, study, test -- all good. But you
must
do
this stuff - touch it, do it, think it or you'll get the same
treatment I
did.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay [mailto:jay.tomas@infosecguru.com ]
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:12 AM
To: mduff@tampabay.rr.com; manis@digital39.com;
pen-test@securityfocus.com
Subject: RE: CEH Books
<rant> If you could learn to hack/assess from reading a book everyone
would
do it. Does a carpenter go get a book to learn to swing a hammer.?No
he
goes
out and does it and probably smashes a few knuckles in the
process.The
most
important part of hacking/assessing is opening your mind see where it
leads.
There is a million ways to check for XSS, CSRF etc. You have to be
determined and flexlible. Try things even though it shouldn't work.
e.g I was looking for XSS in a input field. Tried all the normal
stale
"><script>alert('XSS')</script> type syntax. - nadda.
Only after I padded it with 20 null characters (%00) on each side it
did
pop.
Reading should give you 'ideas' after that its up to you.
CEH is a baseline like most certs. It says I sat through a week of
training
and then I took a multiple choice test. May mean I know my stuff and
want
to
documnt it to an extent. Or I May be good at tests and dont know sh@t
about
security.</rant>
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: Michelle Duff [mailto:mduff@tampabay.rr.com]
To: manis@digital39.com,pen-test@securityfocus.com
Sent: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:01:23 -0400
Subject: RE: CEH Books
Peter -
Sorry, I haven't read those books...when I can't find anyone who's
read a
study book, I'll check out the reviews on Amazon.com - granted, the
reviewers may not always have a clue, but the more the book is
reviewed I
can get an idea if it's what I need & if it's any good... I've had
good
results w/ this method.
Amazon readers gave Michael Graves' Exam Prep book a good review:
http://www.amazon.com/Certified-Ethical-Hacker-Exam-Publishing/dp/0789735318
/ref=sr_1_1/102-9254239-5172111?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187930981&sr=1-1
Amazon readers also gave Kimberly Graves' Review Guide good marks:
http://www.amazon.com/CEH-Official-Certified-Ethical-Hacker/dp/0782144373/re
f=sr_1_1/102-9254239-5172111?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187931127&sr=1-1
Hopefully, someone here has read the books and can comment on them.
Good luck!
Michelle
-----Original Message-----
From: listbounce@securityfocus.com
[mailto:listbounce@securityfocus.com ]
On
Behalf Of Peter Manis
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:09 PM
To: pen-test@securityfocus.com
Subject: CEH Books
I found two CEH books on Alibris and I was wondering if anyone had
experience with either.
Certified Ethical Hacker: Exam 312-50
by Michael Gregg
CEH: Official Certified Ethical Hacker Review Guide
by Kimbery Graves
Thanks,
- Pete
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