But the traditional cracking tools don't know anything about alt code but they
do know traditional key presses
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Wright <cwright@bdosyd.com.au>
To: Craig Wright <cwright@bdosyd.com.au>; Cummings, Steve: IT (LDN)
<Steve.Cummings@barclayscapital.com>; BMcAninch@PENSON.COM
<BMcAninch@PENSON.COM>; pen-test@securityfocus.com <pen-test@securityfocus.com>
CC: pand0ra.usa@gmail.com <pand0ra.usa@gmail.com>
Sent: Thu Sep 22 05:36:07 2005
Subject: RE: Whitespace in passwords - From Security focus
Myth #10: Use ALT+255 for the Strongest Possible Password
It common to see recommendations to use high-ASCII characters as the ultimate
password tip. High-ASCII characters are those that cannot normally be typed on
a keyboard but are entered by holding down the ALT key and typing the
character's ASCII value on the numeric keypad. For example, the sequence
ALT-0255 creates the character <ÿ>.
Although they are useful in some situations, you should also consider the
disadvantages. First of all, holding down the ALT key and typing on the numeric
keypad is something that can easily be observed by others. Second, creating
such a character requires five keystrokes that must be memorized and later
typed every time the password is entered. Perhaps a more effective technique
would be to make your password five characters longer, which would actually
make your password much stronger for the same number of keystrokes.
For example, a five-character password made up of high-ASCII characters will
require 25 keystrokes to complete. With 255 possible codes for each character
and five characters, the total possible combinations are 255^5 (or
1,078,203,909,375). However, a 25-character password made up of only lower-case
letters has 26^25 (or 236,773,830,007,968,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) possible
combinations. Clearly, you are better off just making longer passwords.
Another thing to consider is that some laptop keyboards make numeric keypad
input difficult and some command-line tools may not accept high-ASCII
characters. For example, you can use the character ALT+0127 in Windows, but you
cannot type that character at a command prompt. Conversely, I have found that
some character codes such Tabs (ALT+0009), LineFeeds (ALT+0010), and ESC
(ALT+0027) can be used when setting your password from a command prompt but
cannot be used in any Windows dialog boxes (which may actually be a desirable
side-effect in some rare cases).
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Wright
Sent: 22 September 2005 8:45
To: 'Steve.Cummings@barclayscapital.com'; BMcAninch@PENSON.COM;
pen-test@securityfocus.com
Cc: pand0ra.usa@gmail.com
Subject: RE: Whitespace in passwords
If you are this worried and the users are capable enough - than use OTP's or
certificates or something
RSA keyfobs or SKEY beat passwords hands down
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve.Cummings@barclayscapital.com
[mailto:Steve.Cummings@barclayscapital.com]
Sent: 21 September 2005 5:27
To: Craig Wright; BMcAninch@PENSON.COM; pen-test@securityfocus.com
Cc: pand0ra.usa@gmail.com
Subject: RE: Whitespace in passwords
I never said that I didn't agree with you but the alt system in my book is a
more useful way of protecting passwords than 14 character password etc
Regards
Steve Cummings
Barclays Capital
DDI 0207 773 4245
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Wright [mailto:cwright@bdosyd.com.au]
Sent: 21 September 2005 07:32
To: Cummings, Steve: IT (LDN); BMcAninch@PENSON.COM; pen-test@securityfocus.com
Cc: pand0ra.usa@gmail.com
Subject: RE: Whitespace in passwords
John was a tool which was good a decade ago
The tools have moved on - just because not everyone here has used precomputed
tables and quadratic methods does not mean that an attacker does not know of
them. I am sure that Barclays Capital has enough of a presence to attract the
corporate criminal type...
I reiterate - the real issue is to stop an attacker getting this info in the
first place.
Secure Server plus secure client settings in group policy on a MSFT network and
this is no longer an issue. "An Ounce of Prevention is worth a pound of cure"...
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve.Cummings@barclayscapital.com
[mailto:Steve.Cummings@barclayscapital.com]
Sent: 21 September 2005 3:37
To: Craig Wright; BMcAninch@PENSON.COM; pen-test@securityfocus.com
Cc: pand0ra.usa@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Whitespace in passwords
Try the password of your choice with alt 255 in the middle currently things
like lopht and john don't get near it
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Wright <cwright@bdosyd.com.au>
To: Cummings, Steve: IT (LDN) <Steve.Cummings@barclayscapital.com>;
BMcAninch@PENSON.COM <BMcAninch@PENSON.COM>; pen-test@securityfocus.com
<pen-test@securityfocus.com>
CC: pand0ra.usa@gmail.com <pand0ra.usa@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue Sep 20 20:27:52 2005
Subject: RE: Whitespace in passwords
HI
1st it does not make them untouchable
Next, MOST applications do not accept Alt+xxx based passwords - very few users
will use them as well
Do your users authenticate via a Radius systems, the web...? Any of these will
not accept Alt+xxx chars.
Most users will have issues using this
the following does not make a very memerable password - see how often it is
remembered?
¦ß?|?O11s
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve.Cummings@barclayscapital.com
[mailto:Steve.Cummings@barclayscapital.com]
Sent: Wed 21/09/2005 2:41 AM
To: Craig Wright; BMcAninch@PENSON.COM; pen-test@securityfocus.com
Cc: pand0ra.usa@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Whitespace in passwords
Why aren't alt characters feasible alt255 is an easy one for anyone to
remember and if the policy for passwords dictates the requirement then most
large firms would accept this especially if it made the password in the current
view untouchable for the for seable future
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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