Ethical Hacking Learn to find vulnerabilities before the bad guys do! Gain real world hands on hacking experience in our state of the art hacking lab. Course designed and taught by expert instructors with years of penetration testing experience. 12 student maximum in every class. Certification attempt included in every package. | Computer Forensics Training at InfoSec Institute Gain the in-demand skills of a certified computer examiner, learn to recover trace data left behind by fraud, theft, and cybercrime perpetrators. Discover the source of computer crime and abuse at your organization so that it never happens again. All of our class sizes are guaranteed to be 12 students or less to facilitate one-on-one interaction with one of our expert instructors. |

| Subject: | Re: Digital forensics of the physical memory |
|---|---|
| Date: | Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:35:16 -0700 (PDT) |
Ben,
The only other thing I would like to mention is the difficulty in gathering a trustworthy image of physical memory. In fact I would go so far as saying that this is an impossibility so long as the imaging process relies on the host operating system. You touch on this briefly in Chapter 2, "Problems with memory acquisition procedure", but fail to note that the approaches you suggest (using dd or the proof of concept tools in idetect) can be circumvented by fairly rudimentary kernel space anti-forensics themselves.
You've hit the nail squarely on the head here, I believe. I contacted the author directly with regards to some issues I saw, and though he thanked me for my comments, he really didn't (and has yet to do so) addressed those issues. One of the issues in particular is that he starts off by mentioning the FU rootkit and the SQL Slammer worm, both of which are specific to Windows...and then presents examples using only a Linux system. He states in the paper that similar work can be done on Windows systems, but never provided any information to that effect. Based on entries I made to my blog the other day, I ended up having a conversation w/ someone from MS about this very issue. The issue of using dd.exe to image Physical Memory goes beyond the fact that there don't seem to be any maps describing how physical memory is used by Windows systems, and that memory used by processes consists of both RAM and the pagefile. Additional issues include, as you pointed out, that while the imaging process is occurring, the kernel memory (and even user-mode memory) is changing...so what you end up with is a smear, for want of a better term. Even tools like pmdump.exe and LiveKD (SysInternals.com) are not sufficient for collecting user-mode memory, b/c they do not lock or suspend memory. The upshot is that in order to really capture a snapshot of a Windows system, you need to cause a crashdump. Properly configured, you can get a lot of valuable information from this crashdump, as it will contain the contents of kernel-mode memory. In addition, the MS debuggers "understand" this output...whereas the output of dd.exe is NOT compatible with the debuggers.
This is not to take away from the rest of the document which, overall, is quite informative and probably applicable to the vast majority of Linux intrusions seen today, but I think this is an important point to make nonetheless.
I fully agree...my intention is NOT to take away from the author's efforts, but instead use them as a starting point for additional work. H. Carvey "Windows Forensics and Incident Recovery" http://www.windows-ir.com http://windowsir.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------ Harlan Carvey, CISSP "Windows Forensics and Incident Recovery" http://www.windows-ir.com http://windowsir.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------
| <Prev in Thread] | Current Thread | [Next in Thread> |
|---|---|---|
| ||
| Previous by Date: | FTimes 3.5.0 Released, klm |
|---|---|
| Next by Date: | RE: Digital forensics of the physical memory, George M. Garner Jr. |
| Previous by Thread: | Re: Digital forensics of the physical memory, Mariusz Burdach |
| Next by Thread: | RE: Digital forensics of the physical memory, George M. Garner Jr. |
| Indexes: | [Date] [Thread] [Top] [All Lists] |