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Re: newbie quetsions

Subject: Re: newbie quetsions
Date: 12 Jan 2005 07:50:51 -0000
In-Reply-To: <41DD51DF.9080407@immunitysec.com>

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Dave Aitel wrote:

I guess the interesting thing is that you actually bought something for 
your millions of dollars. Or perhaps it's a look into the Speed vs. 
Accuracy trade off. Lots of other people have spent millions of dollars 
on professional engines, but still fail the simple tests like this 
because all nss.co.uk is testing for is extremely old attacks and 
whether an IDS can take the load of millions of packets at once. This is 
going to favor Snort-like systems largely at the expense of parsing 
engines. I think it's telling that nss doesn't test MSRPC at all. It's 
funny how the IDS industry has tuned itself. But set your MTU low 
enough, and you can bypass some systems even if you're the only packets 
on the wire. Doing SMB fragmentation basically guarantees it.

If you're looking for a misleading test, the NSS.CO.UK tests are what 
you want. They're not open tests. They're outdated. They largely test 
for things you don't care about, such as pushing packets down a wire. No 
scientific test should be non-repeatable, and no scientific test should 
require such large amounts of money to change hands.


I really suggest reading the reports that NSS issues including their market 
overview and test methodology in order to learn about how to analyze and test 
security devices or any other communication devices. To say that NSS's tests 
are out of date is simply not true.        

Evaluation of IPS products raises a great challenge for the evaluator. In my 
experience, the NSS group does a very thorough and, perhaps most importantly, 
un-biased work with their round of tests of IPS devices.
By examining NSS's test methodologies (published in their site and in every 
report they issue), it is easy to recognize the level of understanding that the 
NSS group has in regarding to the IPS market and product positioning (this 
understanding is the first step in establishing the correct test scenarios and 
success criteria).  
 
Regarding to Evasion techniques, NSS's tests comprise more than enough methods 
that try to evade detection. These include: Packet fragmentation which include 
19 different methods of IP packet fragmentation and Stream segmentation, URL 
Obfuscation which include 9 URL obfuscation techniques (e.g., URL encoding, 
premature URL ending, session splicing etc), other miscellaneous evasion 
techniques... Of course there will always be new evasion techniques but it 
seems that NSS has chosen to use the most updated and common ones. Let's 
remember that no test can include all the possible evasion techniques but the 
important thing is to aim as high as possible. 

NSS includes also special evasion techniques in order to test rate-based NIPS 
which are usually based on time-dependant thresholds. In order to test these 
detection engines NSS generates DoS attacks, network scans and self-propagating 
Worm activities with different delays between packets(e.g., very slow scans, 
random time between events, slow TCP connection floods, slow SYN attacks etc.). 
In this way NSS analyzes how sophisticated these rate-based detection engines 
are.  

According to NSS reports, they have all the equipment and experience that is 
needed in order to simulate background traffic that emulates "real" world 
legitimate user behaviors (throughout several popular applications).  This is a 
very important capability that helps to reveal false positive and misdetection 
percentages of the detection and prevention engines  maybe the most important 
test for IPS devices (as high percentages of false positive renders the IPS 
devices useless). 

NSS indeed pushes the products to their limits. I think that this is certainly 
necessary in order to  reveal how much "brain" work was invested in the 
hardware and software architecture. NSS's performance test includes playing 
with parameters such as number of simultaneous TCP connections, TCP connection 
rates, Packet sizes, packet rates, etc. This capability allows an analysis of 
the immunity of the detection engines against false positive and misdetections. 
 It is also interesting and educating to see how NSS approaches differently 
rate-based NIPS and Content-based NIPS with their performances and false 
positive rate tests.

Avi Chesla.

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